The (Not So) United Kingdom

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Reading the comments on Dutch’s great ‘Ameri’-vision piece, mt58 shared a map of America, showing each States object of hatred:

As I commented, this was invaluable background detail:

… which gave me a thought. That perhaps I could provide a primer to act in a similar vein for the UK.

Firstly, some housekeeping; UK, Great Britain, British Isles – why so many names ? !

So:

Great Britain is the island comprising England, Scotland and Wales. Sometimes referred to as just Britain cos, well, laziness.

United Kingdom is the political entity of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full and proper title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland – which no one says ever cos, well, laziness. And word counts. I do believe that at the age of 46 its the first time I have ever used it. 

It doesn’t though, include the Isle of Man (island between England and Ireland) or The Channel Islands (group of small islands in the English Channel close to France) as they’re Crown Dependencies. What’s that? You want to know what a Crown Dependency is? That’s one for the Advanced UK class. According to a statistic I just made up but which may well be close to the truth, 97.46% of Brits can’t explain what one is either. Residents of Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are still British citizens despite not technically being from Great Britain or the UK.

Its all so obvious.

Meanwhile, The British Isles refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland so includes the Republic of Ireland. As well as all of the other smaller islands dotted off the mainland, like the Isle of Man. But do not ever make the mistake of referring to the Irish (Republic) as British. If you’re in Northern Ireland referring to anyone as British is a potential minefield, probably best avoided.

Now that you’re totally clear on that:

History:

The UK has been subjected to a number of hostile takeovers. There were the Romans from Italy, the Angles and Saxons from Germany (hence Anglo-Saxon), the Vikings from Scandinavia and the Normans from France. The last of those was 1066:

“Please. I insist. Call me ‘Bill.’ “

Having seen how its done, we’ve been busy since then giving back to the world. There’s barely a country, territory or region that we haven’t invaded, annoyed or picked a fight with at some point.

Internally its been much the same. England variously fought Scotland, Wales and Ireland all of which were separate kingdoms at one time. Wales was annexed in 1535. Scotland and England formally tied the knot to become the UK in 1707 and in 1801 Ireland was brought on board. Whether they liked it or not, mostly not. While not fighting with the neighbours the English took breaks to fight amongst themselves in the War of the Roses and the English Civil War. We’re the drunk that could start a fight in an empty room.

All of which explains why England isn’t necessarily top of the others Christmas card lists. So basically, on a national level everyone hates the English while the English treat Wales and Northern Ireland with disdain while reserving particular enmity for Scotland.

For national stereotypes that we use to disparage each other:

Scots are alcoholics, miserly, ginger haired, pasty white skinned from a lack of sun and will be dead by 60 due to a lack of fruit and vegetables in their diet.

Welsh all love rugby, sing in choirs and are sheepshaggers, i.e. they’re a bit overfriendly with the flocks. Still, could be worse:

People from East Anglia, the sticky out lump on the East Coast of England just above London are generally assumed by the rest of the country to be inbred with webbed feet and a lack of fingers due to the lack of outside genes. Actually I don’t think that is worse, just a whole different kind of wrong.

English are emotionless, binge drinking hooligans, arrogant, sore losers and are to blame for Brexit.

What an attractive bunch we make.

And then, there’s the North – South Divide:

Quick detour back to geography:

Your view of what constitutes the north or the south will vary depending on where you live.


I grew up in Northumberland, the far north east of England. So far north that it was on the north side of Hadrian’s Wall leading to some less enlightened Southerners to believe I’m actually Scottish.

For some from my corner of the country, anything below the River Tyne is the South. For some in the South meanwhile, the belief is that anything above the M25 motorway that circles London is the North.

All of this ignores that England is generally seen as having the North, the Midlands and the South.

But the North – South divide ignores that, too.

In essence, the stereotype is that the North is a post industrial wasteland, lacking in culture or investment and with a population mired in poverty. In the view of Southerners we’re unintelligent, unintelligible paupers. Whereas the South is rich in wealth, opportunities and culture and populated by the metropolitan elite. In the view of Northerners they’re Southern Softies, or Soft Southern Bastards. Other vastly more offensive terms are also available.

For extra confusion: Wales is generally considered to be on the north side of the partition even though geographically it straddles the divide. If it’s considered at all. English disdain, and all that.

It was explained to me that the reasons behind each US state’s ire was largely due to college football. Sport plays a big part here too but its mostly due to professional football of the spherical ball kind. The only college rivalry of any note is Oxford and Cambridge but I’m not sure that anyone outside the students and alumni of these universities particularly cares given that the stereotype of them is that they’re overprivileged muppets.

Oxford and Cambridge.

A map of county rivalries probably wouldn’t give much away as its generally at city / town / village level where the real action is. The exceptions to this being Lancashire and Yorkshire which, is an enmity that goes way back. Things kicked off in the 1400s as they fought the War of the Roses. It might sound like an argument over floral arrangements but was named for the symbols of the two counties; the Red Rose of Lancashire and White Rose of Yorkshire.

It rumbled on in bloody fashion for control of the English throne over the course of 30+ years, with Lancashire ultimately coming out on top, setting up the reign of Henry VIII and thereby giving Herman’s Hermits a punning #1 song title 500 years down the line and providing Shakespeare plenty of material to work with. Quite the legacy. 

People in Yorkshire have long memories though, and still haven’t forgotten. Plus they have an overbearing assertion of their own superiority over everyone else, reflected in the phrase that Yorkshire is ‘God’s own country’. At the height of the Happy Mondays, Stone Roses and Madchester music scene, Lancashire responded with the proclamation that on the 8th day God created Manchester.

God is yet to comment publicly on the matter.

The other main county rivalry is due to baked goods. Devon and Cornwall are mostly rural counties and tourist magnets at the far south west corner of England. They share a common enemy in rich city dwellers who buy up second homes all over the nation’s beauty spots and price the locals out of the market. When it comes to scones though, its war.

In Cornwall scones are served jam first with clotted cream on top. The Devon method is clotted cream first with jam on top. You might think who the hell cares, just let me stuff my face with them. And you’d be correct, I do love a good scone but people also love an argument. If they weren’t wasting their time on this they might have to do some work.

Personally, I follow the Cornish method. Not because I have anything against Devon, but jam is thicker than cream so its easier to spread the cream on the jam. If any Devonians are reading, sorry, its nothing personal.

While we’re on the subject of scones, in addition to the bad blood between Cornwall and Devon, they’re also at the centre of one of the most contentious and long running debates in Britain. In the unlikely event you find yourself at a dull dinner party with a load of Brits and want to liven things up just ask how they pronounce the word scone then sit back and watch.

Where I grew up its pronounced scone as in ‘gone’ whereas where my wife grew up in Derbyshire (the Midlands) its scone as in ‘phone’. Both opinions informed by the belief that the other pronunciation is the reserve of posh folk. I’ve never watched Downton Abbey so I can’t verify who is right in that regard. There appears to be no north – south divide on this one, there are pockets of variation all over the place.

And if you really want to toss in a lit match? Ask them about bread. This simple item is variously called a bread bun, a breadcake, a bread roll, a barmcake, a cob, a bap, a muffin, a scuffler, etc, etc.

Any discussion of which is correct will result in the belief that the louder and more forcefully you shout will be sufficient to convince everyone else that your own term is the one true bread. As well as being entirely pointless.

Still, its better than shouting about Brexit and the merits of EU membership.

Brexit is a recent addition to the hate factory. It managed to internalise all the dischord that was previously directed at our European neighbours by those of certain political persuasions and set families, friends and colleagues at odds with each other. Social media was a lawless sewer of righteous indignation, baiting and abuse the week after the vote. And still it rumbles on. I never thought I’d say it but as a left-leaning pro-European, let’s all just get on and love each other type of guy, I’d rather go back to the scones debate to be honest.

Back to sport then. Specifically: football. Generally hatred is reserved for a team’s closest neighbours, usually in the same city or one not far away. Given the size of the country and number of teams its not difficult to find someone to despise. Sometimes, one intense rivalry is just not enough. For example, Liverpool (as in the football team) have their cross city neighbours Everton to cross swords with but also have a particularly ‘vibrant’ relationship with Manchester United. Manchester United meanwhile also have Manchester City to contend with and then there’s Leeds United for whom Manchester United are the object of their disaffection.

The intensity of their non affection and reciprocation waxes and wanes depending on teams’ trajectories. Cross city rivals will always have a special bond. But despite being in the same division, Liverpool have been outperforming Everton for so long that Liverpool fans don’t treat Everton as serious rivals anymore. Similarly, Leeds United fans hatred of Manchester United isn’t returned with quite the same level of animosity these days.

The Liverpool – Manchester rivalry also takes in other aspects. Its not just football, both were industrial powerhouses vying for commercial supremacy and football just allowed residents to give voice to their feelings of superiority. And then music was added into the mix. The Beatles and Merseybeat gave Liverpool global supremacy in the 60s but Manchester came back strongly in the 80s and 90s with The Smiths followed by Madchester, followed by Oasis.

My own team are Newcastle United whose arch rivals are Sunderland. Again, both industrial powerhouses for whom football was an extension of civic pride, the stadiums are only 14 miles apart. Both were hugely successful in the late 19th and early 20th century but just like the shipyards both were famed for, that success is now a distant memory. A shared lack of success does nothing to calm feelings though. In 2013 Sunderland won 3 – 0 at Newcastle. Trouble ensued from aggrieved Toon* fans resulting in a notorious altercation captured on film in which a middle aged man punched a police horse in the head. He was sentenced to 12 months in prison. The horse was fine, you’ll be pleased to know. Sometimes hatred and stupidity tread a fine line.
* Supporters of Newcastle are the ‘Toon Army’. This is because in Geordie (someone from Newcastle) vernacular Toon = Town and Newcastle is The Town.

For possibly the ultimate sporting rivalry, which isn’t really about football at all, it’s off to Glasgow. Celtic and Rangers are the biggest clubs in Scotland. Celtic represent Catholics and Rangers Protestants. Sectarian politics have played such a part that the first Catholic to sign for Rangers wasn’t until 1989. Despite over 130 years of shared history, there are still only a small number of players that have played for both teams. The rivalry is a representation of all the issues around Northern Ireland but transplanted to Scotland, taking in religion, politics, national identity and a whole lot of history. I wouldn’t even know where to start in dealing with Northern Ireland though, its seemingly simple but complicated. Or is it seemingly complicated but simple? 

There’s so many rivalries across this land that its only possible to cover off a small amount. For one last example of how far down it goes, when I first used to go out drinking with friends it was in the small seaside town of Amble. A couple of times we went drinking in Alnwick instead, a bigger town 10 miles away. (A picturesque place, Alnwick Castle has appeared in many films including representing Hogwarts). We were told by older friends that under no circumstances should we tell anyone we were from Amble.

As the largest town in the area, a Friday and Saturday night in Alnwick pulled in drinkers from across the district. Alcohol and parochial pride in their town or village apparently made for a combustible combination. We never experienced any trouble ourselves so maybe like a lot of these stereotypes it was more folklore than reality but we didn’t take any chances. 

I call a tnocs.com flash mob meet-up for this Sunday at noon. Who’s in? -mt58


One thing to remember is that all of the stereotypes depicted are just that – and they ignore the rich diversity that exists everywhere. There maybe an element of truth in some of them but I would like to make it clear that I do not believe that the Welsh shag sheep or condone its use as a derogatory term. My role is merely to educate you in just how dysfunctional a family the UK can be.


Right then, anyone have any questions on that or have any requests for future primers on British culture, geography, history, etc?

Or if you like, the comments section is open. Feel free to have an argument about what you call bread buns. 

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JJ Live At Leeds

From across the ocean, a middle aged man, a man without a plan, a man full of memories, a man like JJ.

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minor major 7th
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May 26, 2022 6:28 am

Great post JJ. I learned a lot.
My question: how does the motherland view its former colonies?
Feel free to keep you answer(s) to the comical or silly. I know it’s a loaded question.

Generally speaking, we (Canada) think of our selves as one of the kids that behaves themselves. Obtaining independence constitutionally and helping when called upon.

A related matter (maybe for another post): different views of the Monarchy throughout the UK. I raise this because it has become a hot topic in Canada lately. The general consensus is that we love The Queen but may re-evaluate our relationship with the Monarchy after she passes away. Although the constitutional quagmire for Canada to jettison the Monarchy is a Ph.D topic on its own.

Finally for yours truly:

Scone rhymes with phone and I too follow the Cornish method–although I did not know that until today!

minor major 7th
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May 26, 2022 10:57 am

Regarding the Commonwealth Games, it may come as no surprise that, generally speaking, Canada’s focus on international sport is on the Winter Olympics (although viewership continues to decline due to both geo-politics and no participation in Hockey by the NHL) and, more importantly, the various international hockey tournaments.

This is to say that, personally and anecdotally, we hear about the Commonwealth Games, but I don’t know of anyone who watches them.

thegue
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May 26, 2022 12:37 pm

I can’t let this opportunity slide…

https://youtu.be/-Aj3KZa1ZCM

jilly boal
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May 27, 2022 7:48 am

*ahem*

200m-de-grasse.jpg
jilly boal
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May 27, 2022 7:48 am
Reply to  jilly boal

*ahem AHEM*

image-1.jpg
minor major 7th
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May 27, 2022 9:02 am
Reply to  jilly boal

Thank you, jilly. My apologies for the oversight. Weak, weak coffee yesterday morning.

jilly boal
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May 27, 2022 11:21 am

actually saw DeGrasse run once. His form is terrible but he’s pure speed. Amazing to watch a bunch of super-fast humans at top speed, and then one moves ahead, going even faster…

thegue
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May 26, 2022 10:13 am

Canada? Oh, CANADA?!!!

It’s one of two things:

  1. America’s Hat
  2. Diet America

All things in jest (the Canadians are great with taking jokes a-BOOT their country!!)!

**I have SO MUCH to add to this conversation, so buckle up! Unfortunately I’m in class right now so give me some time!!

minor major 7th
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May 26, 2022 11:04 am
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Memo to Canada re: thegue’s next visit:

Someone get a toque ready. We don’t wanna be running up the hydro bill.
Be sure to save your toonies so that our pal has a memento.
Remind thegue that we use metric and imperial up here. We’re too nice to pick one.
See you soon, eh!?

Last edited 2 years ago by minor major 7th
jilly boal
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May 26, 2022 8:52 am

great article. and yeah, N. Ireland is a whole different level of crazy, best avoided. (As the Romans did, it seems. History tells us that they conquered that damp rainy main island, then looked across the sea at an even damper, rainier island and thought “sod that for a game of marbles…”)
Not sure about that map though – the north is too far south on one side and too far north on the other. I’d say Leicester, Birmingham and Coventry are Midlands and the North starts with Nottingham. Brian Clough would certainly agree with me!

thegue
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May 26, 2022 10:20 am
Reply to  jilly boal

DAMN UNITED!!!

On a lighter note, I regularly engage in a game called “guess the accent”. When I run into people thru bartending, or social gatherings, and I detect a different accent (American or otherwise), I’ll ask them if they’re from _______

ONE EXCEPTION: I was bartending at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and a guest ordered a drink from me while talking to one of their friends.

Me: “Excuse, I REALLY apologize if this offends you, but are you from Northern Ireland?”

It is SUCH a unique accent, but imagine if I’d said that to a Geordie. Or Scotsman.

jilly boal
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May 26, 2022 11:43 am

do other countries have so many different regional accents as the uk? It’s like every street hits the consonants harder than the next street over.
So…. what is the difference between the Geordie/Mackem/Smoggie accent? And where is the line between the areas? One side of a river?

thegue
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May 26, 2022 12:49 pm

I read an article on the various subtle accents in the UK, and how English linguists can identify the origin of a person with 5 km of their hometown in England based on various pronunciations.

Also, a great opportunity to plug one of my favorite videos:

https://youtu.be/FyyT2jmVPAk

dutchg8r
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May 26, 2022 1:44 pm

Ok, this has bugged me forever –

What is the association with calling Newcastle folks “Geordies”? I’ve always thought it similar to Louisiana Cajun’s where it makes zero sense unless you know Cajuns of the area descended from French Canadian Acadians (or something like that, I still don’t fully understand it, or their accent for that matter, lol)

What’s the term Geordies based on?

jilly boal
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May 26, 2022 11:40 am
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yeah, the NI/Ulster accent is unusual. And i think because it’s so different from the southern Ireland accent, it throws a lot of people. And then there’s the slang. And the speed. And the cursing…

mt58
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May 26, 2022 1:13 pm
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…And a good welcome to @jilly boal !

Great to see you here!

cappiethedog
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May 26, 2022 8:52 pm
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Hi, mt58. I would do this through e-mail, but I’m waiting for my phone to work. Is there a way that “cappie the dog” shows up in the “recent quippery” section, while still keeping my actual name for articles. I want to thank the other people who commented on my article, but I have a phobia about seeing my name five times in a row.

mt58
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May 26, 2022 9:10 pm
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The way that the code works, we can only go with one name. I’ve flipped you back to cappie.

jilly boal
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May 26, 2022 11:28 pm
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thanks! Great to see so many familiar names!

Phylum of Alexandria
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May 26, 2022 9:12 am

Today’s lesson: human suckage is universal! Aw, how nice, we’re united in our collective awfulness. 🙂

I did once make the mistake of extending the “British Isles” concept too far, and called Irish people “British” to someone with Irish parents–and they sternly corrected me with a warning that I better not say anything like that in Ireland.

It’s odd how we all are almost proudly indifferent to the nuances of other cultures, while at the same time fully convinced that everyone should care about our particular nuances. I had a flicker of umbrage once when someone confused a Baltimore accent for a Philly one. But after a second thought I realized: “you know, they are pretty similar!”

I think the running thread in a lot of this is wounded pride, or just general insecurities that manifest in random ways. Thus these very strange battles of slang like pop vs soda, of jam and cream vs cream and jam, or breaking eggs on the small side or big side.

#Little-Endian4Life

I will say that America threw an outright bomb into the old British baking terms, and so I get so confused when I try to work out what’s a biscuit, what’s a scone, and what’s a muffin.

Last edited 2 years ago by Phylum of Alexandria
Phylum of Alexandria
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May 26, 2022 10:02 am

Hey, even we sometimes call it what it is. In Philly we lovingly refer to cream chipped beef served on toast as “shit on a shingle.” 🙂

lovethisconcept
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May 27, 2022 2:35 pm

My father worked for a few years in Canada. The first time he ordered biscuits and gravy in a restaurant, the server quizzed him about it pretty sharply. Was he sure that he wanted the gravy on the biscuits? Yes, he was. Really sure?. Yes. Really, really sure? At this point it was decided that the gravy would come on the side. When he saw the biscuits, he was really glad. After a little bit of confusion and a good bit of laughter, he ordered some fried potatoes for the gravy, and took the biscuits home for dessert that night.

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May 26, 2022 9:23 am

On a flight back from London, a flight attendant asked if I’d like a scone. I forget how she pronounced it, but just as she was going to put it on my plate we hit a little turbulence. The scone slipped out of her tongs, fell on to my plate, and spun around like you’d spin a coin. It came to a rest, and the flight attendant said, “I’m sorry, sir, I didn’t mean to throw that at you.”

The guy next to me, in an American accent and without missing a beat, said, “It’s OK, he was just a scone’s throw away.”

Since then, I’ve always pronounced it to rhyme with “stone.”

Pauly Steyreen
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May 26, 2022 10:54 am

Super fun and informative article, JJ! You just peeled back a curtain on something I was largely clueless about.

I grew up on the border of Tennessee and Kentucky, living on both sides of that border at various times. If you explored that area, you would have no way to differentiate them… same type of people, same accents, same landscape, same food. The rivalry was still fierce, but in a friendly-but-serious way (not in a gonna-kill-yo-ass way). Mainly sports related… Kentucky with the upper hand in basketball, Tennessee with the advantage in American football (all other sports are hobbies for kids). But some other stereotypes seeped in. EVERYBODY in Kentucky complained about Tennessee drivers. Not sure there was anything to it, but you know, every day you get stuck behind a slow driver on the 2-lane highways, and every once in a while that car has a Tennessee plate since you live near the border. Selection bias does its magic and suddenly every Tennessean is a shit driver. And don’t get started with that horrid shade of orange for THEIR team.

Anyway not that Kentucky is anything special. We like to say it’s the only state that joined the Confederacy after the Civil War was over. I grew up there and it’s perfectly situated in my past, no need to move it anywhere else in time. I do have a weird sense of defensiveness about Kentucky though, but I wouldn’t be caught dead living there ever again. If that makes any sense…

jilly boal
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May 26, 2022 11:45 am

whats your opinion on hot pot? You have to have one!

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May 26, 2022 11:32 pm

ooh, i love a good stew, me… Bœuf Bourgignon  is just a fancy stew with a sexy accent!

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May 26, 2022 3:33 pm
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When I first moved to Tennessee, I thought there were a lot of British people here. Everyone had a UK sticker or hat or t-shirt. Took me forever to figure out it stood for the University of Kentucky.

lovethisconcept
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May 27, 2022 2:39 pm
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One of my friends was an ardent UK fan. His mother-in-law got him a Duke shirt for Christmas. When his wife asked why in the world she would do that, she replied, “Well, it’s the same shade of blue.” Needless to say, Goodwill was gifted with a Duke shirt shortly thereafter.

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May 26, 2022 1:04 pm

JJ!

My favorite article on the site…it helps that I’ve been to England 20+ times, lived there for two summers and was engaged to an Englishwoman (West London accent, but lived in Norfolk) until 2008. A few thoughts…

  1. States that hate one another: everyone hates Jersey, and Jersey hates everyone. TRUE! Everyone makes fun of the little state tucked in between NYC and Philly, but have no problem using our state to get to the Shore (beach), so there’s some resentment there. I LOVE this state – from where I live, I have access to the beach & mountains, history and culture, all within no more than 100 miles.
  2. Hostile takeovers? England? You’ve been SCOT free for almost a thousand years, as opposed to the French: https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=388869
  3. Drunk that could start a fight in an empty room...I was sucker punched outside a pub in Bath by a man who later cried on my shoulder apologizing, as his girlfriend was just diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor.
  4. The Scots: I played rugby with a Scotsman from the Highlands whose next word in English will be his first. Impossible to understand. Also went to cricket practice in Kearsley, and Melvin, an incredible bowler in his mid-40s chewed my ear off for the better part of an hour. I struggled to understand his accent, and fell asleep that night at 8 due to utter exhaustion from focusing so hard.
  5. As for the Welsh and their rugby fans…(best part about this article is its understated tone): https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2005/02/08/Balls-no-longer-in-rugby-fans-court/63771107887285/
  6. Norwich: had closer contact with the Dutch than London until the first railroad was completed in the 1840s. Also, I love that area just a little less after being dumped.
  7. As The Number Ones covers 1998, wasn’t this close to the dance songs “Naughty North, Sexy South”??
  8. Yorkshire/Lancashire: I’m sure you’ve heard the joke, told by one about the other: What’s the best thing to come out of Yorkshire? The road to Lancashire!
  9. Rangers/Celtic: BRING BACK THE THIRD LANARKS!!! (P.S. in the SPL I support Hearts)
  10. Only Premier League match I’ve ever gone to was at St James Park vs Wimbledon in 1999. Newcastle was ahead 3-0 early, and the stadium was chanting the manager’s name. It was early in the season (August), and it was snowing. I’ve never been so cold. You know who else got cold, in the second half? NEWCASTLE.

Ruud Hullitt was fired the next day.

thegue
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May 26, 2022 5:28 pm

As for more humour based on the Scottish accent, this is one of my favorites:

https://youtu.be/TqAu-DDlINs

lovethisconcept
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May 27, 2022 2:42 pm
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One of my favorite sketches ever.

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May 26, 2022 1:21 pm

This was awesome, JJ. I have to admit as I read it I heard it in the voice of the guy who does the “History Matters” videos on YouTube…you guys both have a way of injecting just the right amount of humour to make what could be a tedious subject riveting!

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May 26, 2022 1:21 pm

My goodness, what a fun read JJ! Happy to know I played a teensy part in planting the seed for this article, I loved reading it. 🙂

Definitely a good high level intro into British resentment towards everyone.

And mt, that pic of Waldorf and Statler as Oxford and Cambridge??? Just sublimely hysterical, that was so good, lol.

Every time I visited my friend and her family (they are in Kent, btw) over the years, they always made up fresh scones for Sunday afternoon tea. (IIRC, they are jam-mers there in the SE). It was a neat custom I thought, and fresh scones are fantastic. Haven’t been over there in 15 years though. We happened to be chatting recently on Skype on a Sunday, and she’s munching on scones, and starting laughing when she realized it, and told me – yep, we still do our fresh scones baking every Sunday! [That would be the ‘rhymes with phone’ version]

Last edited 2 years ago by dutchg8r
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May 26, 2022 6:04 pm

Back when I was a newspaper copy editor, my neighbor (the metro front page designer) and I had such a banter back and forth about the night’s offerings that the metro editor started calling us “Statler and Waldorf.” We took it as a compliment.

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May 26, 2022 3:18 pm

I wanted to postpone commenting until I figured out how to change my name back to “cappie the dog” when I post, so I don’t come across as a raging megalomaniac. Just wanted to say that, “So far north…,” got me laughing.

In some early Ken Loach films, the accents were so impenetrable to people living outside the UK, in particular, “Riff-Raff”, set mostly in London, Channel Four Films made the decision to use subtitles, even though they’re speaking English. When I close my eyes, and I’m concentrating really hard, yeah, I have to admit, it’s hard.

Great stuff, JJ Live at Leeds.

cstolliver
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May 26, 2022 6:00 pm

Great article! I learned so much from it!

mt, the site is becoming daily appointment reading. That’s the good news. The bad news is: When will I find daily reading time? Fortunately, the school year is almost over … but August will be rough.

mt58
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May 26, 2022 9:55 pm
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>the site is becoming daily appointment reading

The Holy Grail, right there. Thank you, Chuck!

Edith G
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May 26, 2022 7:02 pm

Good article JJ. Very informative.

Dance Fever
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May 27, 2022 12:48 am

JJ. Thanks for the history lesson, The funny thing is that applies to just about every local of our world. My fathers side is from England and Ireland and my mothers from the same side but my grandmother has Spain in the genetics and that really throws the whole thing out of whack.
At our faculty luncheon farewell today, a couple of ladies were talking about being bohunks, which for us of a certain age meant Youglosivia, which doesn’t exist anymore but I remember growing up.
The fact of the matter is that however we try to be one world, our ancestry speaks to us and we tend to side with the past.
We should realize we our on this planet together and to move forward we have to forget the sins and memories of the past and forge ahead.
If I’m not mistaken, “Bullworth” the movie said we should all have sex until we all are grey and then move forward. \
But there is something to be said about having a memory of a past life and incorporating into our present.
So much for my lesson of the day.

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May 27, 2022 2:26 pm

I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?

Ozmoe
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May 27, 2022 3:14 pm
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I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?

Aaron3000
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June 2, 2022 10:39 am
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Haha, it’s the electronic version of invisible ink! 😄

Ozmoe
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May 27, 2022 3:16 pm

Had problems with the other posts, so here goes again … I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?

blu_cheez
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May 27, 2022 3:54 pm

I think I need a lie-down with a cool towel on my head after all that – seems exhausting (signed, an American West Coast Liberal Elitest).

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