I firmly believe in taking second looks at music.
As times and circumstances change, one’s perspective in appreciating the arts can alter, too.
To prove my point, consider the changes Dave Marsh, one-time critic for Rolling Stone magazine, made with his favorite musical selections in just eight short years, a while back.
In 1981 Marsh co-wrote The Book of Rock Lists, which included his picks the top 40 songs from each year from 1955-1980. Each song picked had peaked in the top 40 that year as well.
He went further in 1989 with another book titled The Heart of Rock and Soul: The 1001 Greatest Singles Ever Made. And some songs listed were quite different from what he had picked earlier.
… A Quick Diversion (Sorry!)
While we’re on the subject of opinions, let me add that I prefer The Book of Rock Lists over Marsh’s other book. Here’s why:
The Heart of Rock and Soul feels like a rush job.
Some entries consist of only a few sentences as to why he thinks they’re great, with no back story given for the creation of the song or any context about why it matters more than other singles.
That’s not a good approach. Even worse, it’s sloppily put together.
There’s no table of contents.
And the index that claims the main entries will be in bold print has several entries in just regular formatting. For a major publication, this was just sloppy.
Back to the Main Topic!
Obviously, all of the picks Marsh made in The Book of Rock Lists couldn’t make the cut for his second book.
Since 40 songs over 26 years equals 1,040 titles alone, that meant he’d already be over the 1,001 limit he set for his second book.
It would be reasonable to expect that Marsh would displace a lot of his former picks with songs that peaked outside the top 40 (or didn’t chart at all). Similarly, one would expect him to add some rock and soul songs prior to 1955 and some released after 1980.
Having said that, it seemed to me that he would at least use most of his Top Five picks from 1955-1980 from The Book of Rock Lists. After all, 5 times 26 is just 130 songs,leaving plenty of room to add 870 more, right?
Well, that wasn’t the case.
He omitted several, changed the order he had ranked of others and even denigrated some of his previous picks! Pretty wild.
Here’s the yearly top five from The Book of Rock Lists and an indication of whether Marsh put it in his second book and, if so, in what position.
- Some entries are double-sided hits with only one side making the cut, which I note as well.
- Songs that were number one on the Hot 100 (or Billboard’s Best Seller chart prior to August 1958) are in bold.
1955
“Tutti Frutti,” Little Richard-YES [#9]
“Maybellene,” Chuck Berry-YES [#221]
“Speedo,” The Cadillacs-NO
“When You Dance,” The Turbans-NO
“Black Denim Trousers,” The Cheers-NO
1956
“Heartbreak Hotel,” Elvis Presley-NO
“Roll Over Beethoven,” Chuck Berry-YES [#60]
“Fever,” Little Willie John-YES [#109]
“Rip It Up,” Little Richard-YES [#240]
“Blue Suede Shoes,” Carl Perkins-YES [#93]
1957
“Whole Lotta Shakin’ Going On,” Jerry Lee Lewis-YES [#14]
“That’ll Be the Day,” The Crickets-YES [#33]
“School Day,” Chuck Berry-YES [#408]
“Jailhouse Rock,” Elvis Presley-YES [#853]
“Peggy Sue,” Buddy Holly-YES [#114]
1958
“Johnny B. Goode,” Chuck Berry-YES [#2]
“Little Star,” The Elegants-YES [#143]
“For Your Precious Love,” Jerry Butler and the Impressions-YES [#222]
“Rave On,” Buddy Holly-YES [#62]
“Maybe,” The Chantels-YES [#141]
1959
“What’d I Say,” Ray Charles-YES [#41]
“There Goes My Baby,” The Drifters-YES [#30]
“Back in the U.S.A.,” Chuck Berry-YES [#51]
“Sea Cruise,” Frankie Ford-YES [#947]
“Kansas City,” Wilbert Harrison-YES [#181]
1960
“Stay,” Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs-YES [#29]
“Only The Lonely (Know How I Feel),” Roy Orbison-YES [#19]
“Money (That’s What I Want),” Barrett Strong-YES [#163]
“Will You Love Me Tomorrow?,” The Shirelles-YES [#76]
“New Orleans,” Gary “U.S.” Bonds-NO
1961
“Stand By Me,” Ben E. King-YES [#51]
“The Wanderer,” Dion-YES [#81]
“Quarter to Three,” Gary “U.S.” Bonds-YES [#99]
“Running Scared,” Roy Orbison-YES [#227]
“Runaway,” Del Shannon-YES [#353]]
1962
“The Loco-Motion,” Little Eva-YES [#41]
“Up on the Roof,” The Drifters-YES [#83]
“Twist and Shout,” The Isley Brothers-NO
(Marsh didn’t include the Beatles’ remake of this in his top 40 for 1964 in The Book of Rock Lists. Yet in The Heart of Rock and Soul, he ranked the Beatles’ version at #177 while omitting the original. He even had the temerity to call the remake “A beginning-to-end rave-up that makes the Isley Brothers seem absolutely tame.”)
“Duke of Earl,” Gene Chandler-YES [#151]
“He’s a Rebel,” The Crystals-YES [#176]
1963
“Da Doo Ron Ron,” The Crystals-YES [#21]
“He’s So Fine,” The Chiffons-YES [#42]
“Louie Louie,” The Kingsmen-YES [#12]
“Be My Baby,” The Ronettes-YES [#20]
“Prisoner of Love,” James Brown-YES [#96]
1964
“You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feelin’,” The Righteous Brothers-YES [#6]
“She Loves You,” The Beatles-YES [#31]
“I Get Around” / “Don’t Worry Baby,” The Beach Boys-YES [#178 for “I Get Around” and #75 for “Don’t Worry Baby”]
“Baby Love,” The Supremes-NO
“Leader of the Pack,” The Shangri-Las-YES [#448]
1965
“I Can’t Get No Satisfaction,” The Rolling Stones-YES [#6]
“Like a Rolling Stone,” Bob Dylan-YES [#7]
“A Change is Gonna Come,” Sam Cooke-YES [#28]
“Ticket to Ride,” The Beatles-YES [#26]
“In the Midnight Hour,” Wilson Pickett-YES [#147]
1966
“Reach Out I’ll Be There,” The Four Tops-YES [#5]
“Try a Little Tenderness,” Otis Redding-YES [#108]
“When a Man Loves a Woman,” Percy Sledge-YES [#28]
“Hold On! I’m Comin’,” Sam and Dave-YES [#23]
“Gimme Some Lovin’,” The Spencer Davis Group-YES [#119]
1967
“Respect,” Aretha Franklin-YES [#8]
“Soul Man,” Sam and Dave-YES [#335]
“I Can See for Miles,” The Who-YES [#33]
“Penny Lane” / “Strawberry Fields Forever,” The Beatles-YES and NO [#691 for “Strawberry Fields Forever” but no to “Penny Lane”]
“(Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher,” Jackie Wilson-YES [#118]
1968
“Jumpin’ Jack Flash,” The Rolling Stones-YES [#225]
“Dance to the Music,” Sly and the Family Stone-YES [#41]
“I Heard It Through the Grapevine,” Marvin Gaye-YES [#1]
“Everyday People,” Sly and the Family Stone-YES [#18]
“(Sittin’ on) The Dock of the Bay,” Otis Redding-YES [17]
1969
“I Want You Back,” The Jackson Five-YES [#60]
“Suspicious Minds,” Elvis Presley-YES [#260]
“Bad Moon Rising,” Creedence Clearwater Revival-YES [#138]
“Honky Tonk Women,” The Rolling Stones-YES [#322]
“Only the Strong Survive,” Jerry Butler-YES [#62]
1970
“Who’ll Stop the Rain” / “Travelin’ Band,” Creedence Clearwater Revival–YES and NO
[#24 for “Who’ll Stop the Rain” but no to “Travelin’ Band”]
“Instant Karma (We All Shine On),” John Lennon-YES [#413]
“All Right Now,” Free-YES [#387]
“Domino,” Van Morrison-YES [#138]
“If I Were Your Woman,” Gladys Knight and the Pips-YES [#340]
1971
“Won’t Get Fooled Again,” The Who-NO
“Have You Seen Her,” The Chi-Lites-YES [#291]
“Family Affair,” Sly and the Family Stone–YES [#609]
“What’s Going On,” Marvin Gaye-YES [#24]
“Maggie May,” Rod Stewart-YES [#182]
1972
“Tumbling Dice,” The Rolling Stones-YES [#193]
“Layla,” Derek and the Dominos-YES [#109]
“Papa Was A Rolling Stone,” The Temptations-YES [#222]
“Freddie’s Dead,” Curtis Mayfield-YES [#202]
“All the Young Dudes,” Mott the Hoople-NO
1973
“Drift Away,” Dobie Gray-YES [#100]
“Let’s Get It On,” Marvin Gaye-YES [#98]
“Superstition,” Stevie Wonder-YES [#165]
“Call Me (Come Back Home),” Al Green-YES [#174]
“You’re So Vain,” Carly Simon-NO
1974
“Overnight Sensation (Hit Record),” The Raspberries-YES [#563]
“Living for the City,” Stevie Wonder-YES [#207]
“You Make Me Feel Brand New,” The Stylistics-YES [#420]
“Sweet Home Alabama,” Lynyrd Skynyrd-YES [#130]
“Jet,” Paul McCartney and Wings-YES [#505]
1975
“Born to Run,” Bruce Springsteen-YES [#23]
“Bad Luck (Part 1),” Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes-YES [#213]
“Shame, Shame, Shame,” Shirley and Company-YES [#443]
“Lady Marmalade,” Labelle-YES [#984]
“Why Can’t We Be Friends,” WAR-YES [#659]
1976
“Wake Up, Everybody (Part 1),” Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes-YES [#378]
“Love to Love You Baby,” Donna Summer-NO
“She’s Gone,” Hall and Oates-NO
“Rhiannon (Will You Ever Win),” Fleetwood Mac-NO
“Tonight’s the Night (Gonna Be Alright),” Rod Stewart-NO
1977
“Go Your Own Way,” Fleetwood Mac-YES [#319]
“More than a Feeling,” Boston-YES [#615]
“I Wish,” Stevie Wonder-NO
“Rich Girl,” Hall and Oates-NO
“Don’t Stop,” Fleetwood Mac-YES [#383]
1978
“Stayin’ Alive,” The Bee Gees-YES [#716]
“Disco Inferno,” The Trammps-YES [#83]
“Because the Night,” Patti Smith-NO
(Get this: in The Heart of Rock and Soul, Marsh turned around and denigrated Smith’s work here, claiming that “the melody simply overmatches her.” Instead, he favored at #718 her first single from 1974, “Piss Factory.” Gee, wonder why that title never became a hit?)
“Three Times a Lady,” The Commodores-NO
“Last Dance,” Donna Summer-NO
1979
“Hot Stuff,” Donna Summer-NO
“Reunited,” Peaches and Herb-NO
“What a Fool Believes,” The Doobie Brothers-YES [#496]
“Good Times,” Chic-YES [#52]
“Rock With You,” Michael Jackson-NO
1980
“Hungry Heart,” Bruce Springsteen-YES [#405]
“Refugee,” Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers-YES [#688]
“The Wanderer,” Donna Summer-NO
(This was not the song of the same name by Dion that Marsh ranked at number 2 for 1961 in The Book of Rock Lists, by the way.)
“Another Brick in the Wall,” Pink Floyd-NO
“Love Stinks,” The J. Geils Band-NO
All told, Marsh omitted 27 songs he previously ranked in the top 5 for his second book.
He also switched the order around even among each year as well, so he really reconsidered what he liked. And he made no apologies for it that I can find anywhere.
So the next time someone asks you, “Hey, didn’t you used to like that song?” you can say:
“Not any more. Like a critic, I’m allowed to change my opinion.”
And stick to that! Unless…
You go back to liking the song, of course!
Let the author know that you liked their article with a “Green Thumb” Upvote!
Thank You For Your Vote!
Sorry You have Already Voted!
Views: 69
The older I get and the more I am around more normal smart-music-people, like those found here, the less I consider the opinions of music critics to be gospel, and more as just a starting point for conversation. I used to read lists like these and get frustrated (I still do) and think “Why am I wrong about thinking “When a Man Loves a Woman” is not a great song?” Now I think, “Why is Dave Marsh wrong about…” or maybe…”Isn’t that interesting that we’re so different? I wonder what he/she sees in this song that I don’t?”
I have always been impressed that so many of the songs that I loved as a single-digit aged kid are still songs that I love. There definitely are some changes over the years, but I’m also surprised at how many don’t change.
I have gone through the same transformation regarding music criticism. The mantra of “music is subjective”, which I have nearly fully embraced, began from my time in the comment section at the mother ship. I didn’t apply it to critics at first, cuz they’re the professionals, but I since have. When it comes to analyzing music and being able to put it in perspective alongside other music, I cannot compete because I haven’t listened to as much music as them. So maybe their opinion is more of an informed one, but it’s still an opinion.
As for “When a Man Loves a Woman”, if you are talking about Percy Sledge’s original, you go, Link. If you’re talking about the Bolton cover, maybe I would choose to die on another hill, but hey, you be you.
Personally, I don’t like either version. 🙃
This used to happen to me as well. I remember when Roberta Flack‘s monster hit reached the top of the charts. Everyone from my potential new girlfriend to the teachers at school, and even some of the “tough guys“, were amazed and blown away by “The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face,”
But I just didn’t get it. And that holds to this day, well, I’m certainly in no position to criticize the artist, but It doesn’t do anything for me or stir anything inside.
At one time, I thought I just was a weirdo. Which is probably true. But in this case, I’m with you: we like what we like, we don’t like what we don’t like, and as we get older,, that’s enough of an explanation.
See my comment from yesterday and add me to your list of people amazed and blown away. We all have our likes and dislikes. Yes, it’s okay. Just the next time I give Backstabbers a 7, maybe you’ll cut me a little more slack.
Backstabbers is a 10.
But First Time Ever I Saw Your Face is an 11.
What’s a 12?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppm5_AGtbTo
Making any kind of list like that is difficult, particularly when you are ranking songs in order. The sheer volume of songs that he took on makes that particularly challenging and revisiting and revising 8 years later was bound to produce changes. It sounds like he may not have even looked at his old lists when making the new ones, which if the disorganization of the first book is any indication, is very plausible. Or maybe he just gave it a cursory glance but decided to start over. Or yes, he could have changed his opinions on a lot of the songs, as there were so many.
I just looked at my list of top 58 Hot 100 #1 songs of the 20th century, and right away I started questioning mostly where I had certain songs ranked. If I got a do over, there would be lots of changes, not because my opinions of the songs changed, but because it’s so hard to make up my mind as to which song is better than which song. That comes down to hundreds or even thousands of choices just for a small list. I’m glad I don’t do it professionally, not that I’ve ever been asked to do so.
But “Pick Up the Pieces” is #1, right?
Correct!
Here’s the top ten. To prove my point, I already have issues with it.
But not the top song. Never.
1. Pick Up the Pieces- Average White Band (1975)
2. Don’t You (Forget About Me)- Simple Minds (1985)
3. Le Freak- Chic (1978)
4. Upside Down- Diana Ross (1980)
5. Good Times- Chic (1979)
6. …Baby One More Time- Britney Spears (1999)
7. I Feel Fine- The Beatles (1964)
8. Runaway- Del Shannon (1961)
9. Will You Love Me Tomorrow- The Shirelles (1961)
10. I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For- U2 (1987)
You know what I love about that list (other than your #1 which is certainly in my top 3) is “I Feel Fine”. I love that song. Sometimes I think it should be spoken of higher than it is. There are only a couple of Beatles songs that I like better.
Your top 5 is quite funk-centric!
“I Feel Fine” is perfect Beatles.
If I did it over, I would probably have it ranked even higher.
My experience with changing opinion over the years has overwhelmingly been a change to the positive.
I used to hate the Cure, then I realized I only hated “Friday I’m in Love.” And then years later, I suddenly liked “Friday I’m in Love.”
When I first heard a song by Pere Ubu, I took the CD out of the player and threw it across the room. Now they’re my favorite band.
I used to dismiss the R&B hits of the 90s as soulless junk, but now I hear the genius and the real feeling (not to mention the grooves).
I’m trying to think of instances where my assessment has changed to the negative.
Some problematic content has become harder for me to sit with. For instance, Leonard Cohen’s “Diamonds in the Mine.” I can respect it intellectually as a character study, or a theatrical expression of misanthropy, but its rank misogyny disgusts me to the point that I don’t want to listen to it. Ditto for Kanye West’s problematic lyrics, especially because the character study there clearly reflects his actual character.
Beyond that, I’ll have to give it some thought.
Overall, isn’t an occasional change of heart a good thing? I think that it embraces maturity, as well as a chance for reflection.
I meet so many intractable people. I can’t imagine going through life with an “I am always right, and you will never convince me of any other position.”
If that seems like hyperbole, just ask me about my day at SFO airport yesterday. Sometimes, it’s just so exhausting.
Is it real maturity, or is it the glow of nostalgia that wins me over? Maybe a mixture.
Certainly distance can play a factor, especially for more popular stuff. In the moment I can feel overwhelmed or saturated, but with time and distance I can appreciate what others were raving about.
By the way, how was your day at SFO airport yesterday?
I agree completely with everything in your first and second ‘graphs. Well, surmised, and well stated.
At SFO yesterday, I somehow managed to find myself in both the lousiest interaction with a stranger in memory…
… but also the warmest and most pleasant. I woke up thinking about it this morning.
They happened in that order, so I should be grateful for that.
“I used to hate The Cure”
Not a sentence I’ve ever heard anyone say in my entire life. Almost shocking to read it.
I didn’t think I had any remaining capacity to almost shock anyone, so thank you.
And also get this:
For a small time, around the same time as my Cure hate, actually, I hated The Clash as well.
Mostly based on the overplayed “Should I Stay Or Should I Go.” And then once I heard their first album, it was like the feeling never happened.
I’ll call myself Cure-irresolute. I’ve only heard a few songs by the Cure. They didn’t leave me wanting to hear more. I probably would like some of them, but I’ve never had the patience to investigate.
You should at least see the video for “The Lovecats.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUza_wWCfA
We all change our minds as we mature and get exposed to other music. Even critics. But Marsh is known as a huge fan of The Who — he wrote an entire book about them — and he left out “Won’t Get Fooled Again?” Something doesn’t add up there.
And based on the comments from yesterday, I’m going to give Pet Sounds another chance, but I’ll wait until I’m having a bad day. 😉
Critics know nothing. There are no qualifications or prerequisites to becoming one, you just start sharing your opinion. Dave Marsh doesn’t sing or play an instrument, but he’s supposed to be a music expert?
I had this revelation in college, when I was assigned to do film reviews for the student newspaper. I had no expertise in film and very limited knowledge of film history, but I shared my opinion every week and some people treated it as important.
But maybe it is. Maybe in that example, you’re a moderator. A facilitator.
Maybe you are bringing a perspective to the table that your readers may not have considered. And whether you deem the subject matter at hand to be great – or woefully substandard, it seems that talking about art is a way to promote the creation of more art.
Hannah Arendt, herself a dabbler in cultural criticism, argued that the erosion of shared standards of taste is one of the tragedies of modernity. At their best, critics serve an important function, to elucidate standards of taste beyond mere opinion; what we value as a community and why. At the very least, they should get us talking and discussing amongst ourselves.
Shared standards of taste. Interesting concept. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not.
We tend to use a different definition of taste these days than Arendt, as in “you can’t argue taste.” But if you take it to mean standards of what a community values and why, then it can be a good thing, or at least a good conversation to have.
Wasn’t Arendt talking about the 60s counter-culture when she said that?
From 1976 to 1980 is where he really gets into cutting previous favourites loose.
If my maths is right he retained 11 and got rid of 15 in that period. Is that because they were newer and hadn’t had time to fully settle in as classics or for him to get bored of them when the original book came out?
It’s good to change your opinion, it shows growth. There’s plenty of music that I didn’t get as a teenager but have grown into. Mentioned elsewhere yesterday Depeche Mode as an example. They felt very alien and depressing for most of the 80s. Then again I don’t think they were targeting Blasphemous Rumours at 9 year olds. Violator came out when I was 13 by which point music was becoming a real passion and I was just about mature enough to appreciate them. Which included going back to the earlier stuff.
While it’s fair enough for Dave Marsh to change his mind, some acknowledgement would be nice. Rather than just disparaging Because The Night it would be interesting to know why he changed his opinion.
I have changed my opinion about specific songs frequently. Usually that is based on further examination of the lyrics and how they line up with my growth as a person. Misogynistic lyrics that I ignored when I was younger can trip me right up now. Similarly, lyrics that deal with situations I had not yet encountered when I was younger can now resonate in a different way.
Someone who never changes an opinion is someone that I want to stay far away from.
Great idea and execution, Ozmoe. As to my own experiences, I think I changed my mind the most about ’70s funk. Songs like “Flashlight” by Parliament, Slave’s “Slide,” and the Ohio Players’ “Fire” left me cold at the time, but I was still a preteen to young teen and immune to their charms. I’m much fonder of them now.
I’ve shared before that I loathed Charlene’s “I’ve Never Been to Me,” but now can find it charming as long as my brain conjures up the scene with the drag queen from “Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.”
As to songs I liked but now hate, when I was a kid, I thought Joe Tex’s “I Gotcha” was funny. Not now. Same with “Ain’t Gonna Bump No More,” although I can still tolerate it mainly because his character is the butt of the joke (no pun intended).
I’m a sucker for a good needle drop, and that can totally get me to re-evaluate a song that I thought I hated, or was dismissive of. Like: “Hooked On A Feeling” is stupid, but after “Guardians Of The Galaxy” it’s pure gold.
Context ALWAYS matters, which is why you can love a really bad song that played when “X” happened, or come around to something that you hate, but your partner/friend/kid loves.