Reading the comments on Dutch’s great ‘Ameri’-vision piece, mt58 shared a map of America, showing each States object of hatred:
As I commented, this was invaluable background detail:
… which gave me a thought. That perhaps I could provide a primer to act in a similar vein for the UK.
Firstly, some housekeeping; UK, Great Britain, British Isles – why so many names ? !
So:
Great Britain is the island comprising England, Scotland and Wales. Sometimes referred to as just Britain cos, well, laziness.
United Kingdom is the political entity of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full and proper title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland – which no one says ever cos, well, laziness. And word counts. I do believe that at the age of 46 its the first time I have ever used it.
It doesn’t though, include the Isle of Man (island between England and Ireland) or The Channel Islands (group of small islands in the English Channel close to France) as they’re Crown Dependencies. What’s that? You want to know what a Crown Dependency is? That’s one for the Advanced UK class. According to a statistic I just made up but which may well be close to the truth, 97.46% of Brits can’t explain what one is either. Residents of Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are still British citizens despite not technically being from Great Britain or the UK.
Its all so obvious.
Meanwhile, The British Isles refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland so includes the Republic of Ireland. As well as all of the other smaller islands dotted off the mainland, like the Isle of Man. But do not ever make the mistake of referring to the Irish (Republic) as British. If you’re in Northern Ireland referring to anyone as British is a potential minefield, probably best avoided.
Now that you’re totally clear on that:
History:
The UK has been subjected to a number of hostile takeovers. There were the Romans from Italy, the Angles and Saxons from Germany (hence Anglo-Saxon), the Vikings from Scandinavia and the Normans from France. The last of those was 1066:
Having seen how its done, we’ve been busy since then giving back to the world. There’s barely a country, territory or region that we haven’t invaded, annoyed or picked a fight with at some point.
Internally its been much the same. England variously fought Scotland, Wales and Ireland all of which were separate kingdoms at one time. Wales was annexed in 1535. Scotland and England formally tied the knot to become the UK in 1707 and in 1801 Ireland was brought on board. Whether they liked it or not, mostly not. While not fighting with the neighbours the English took breaks to fight amongst themselves in the War of the Roses and the English Civil War. We’re the drunk that could start a fight in an empty room.
All of which explains why England isn’t necessarily top of the others Christmas card lists. So basically, on a national level everyone hates the English while the English treat Wales and Northern Ireland with disdain while reserving particular enmity for Scotland.
For national stereotypes that we use to disparage each other:
• Scots are alcoholics, miserly, ginger haired, pasty white skinned from a lack of sun and will be dead by 60 due to a lack of fruit and vegetables in their diet.
• Welsh all love rugby, sing in choirs and are sheepshaggers, i.e. they’re a bit overfriendly with the flocks. Still, could be worse:
• People from East Anglia, the sticky out lump on the East Coast of England just above London are generally assumed by the rest of the country to be inbred with webbed feet and a lack of fingers due to the lack of outside genes. Actually I don’t think that is worse, just a whole different kind of wrong.
• English are emotionless, binge drinking hooligans, arrogant, sore losers and are to blame for Brexit.
What an attractive bunch we make.
And then, there’s the North – South Divide:
• In essence, the stereotype is that the North is a post industrial wasteland, lacking in culture or investment and with a population mired in poverty. In the view of Southerners we’re unintelligent, unintelligible paupers. Whereas the South is rich in wealth, opportunities and culture and populated by the metropolitan elite. In the view of Northerners they’re Southern Softies, or Soft Southern Bastards. Other vastly more offensive terms are also available.
For extra confusion: Wales is generally considered to be on the north side of the partition even though geographically it straddles the divide. If it’s considered at all. English disdain, and all that.
It was explained to me that the reasons behind each US state’s ire was largely due to college football. Sport plays a big part here too but its mostly due to professional football of the spherical ball kind. The only college rivalry of any note is Oxford and Cambridge but I’m not sure that anyone outside the students and alumni of these universities particularly cares given that the stereotype of them is that they’re overprivileged muppets.
A map of county rivalries probably wouldn’t give much away as its generally at city / town / village level where the real action is. The exceptions to this being Lancashire and Yorkshire which, is an enmity that goes way back. Things kicked off in the 1400s as they fought the War of the Roses. It might sound like an argument over floral arrangements but was named for the symbols of the two counties; the Red Rose of Lancashire and White Rose of Yorkshire.
It rumbled on in bloody fashion for control of the English throne over the course of 30+ years, with Lancashire ultimately coming out on top, setting up the reign of Henry VIII and thereby giving Herman’s Hermits a punning #1 song title 500 years down the line and providing Shakespeare plenty of material to work with. Quite the legacy.
People in Yorkshire have long memories though, and still haven’t forgotten. Plus they have an overbearing assertion of their own superiority over everyone else, reflected in the phrase that Yorkshire is ‘God’s own country’. At the height of the Happy Mondays, Stone Roses and Madchester music scene, Lancashire responded with the proclamation that on the 8th day God created Manchester.
God is yet to comment publicly on the matter.
The other main county rivalry is due to baked goods. Devon and Cornwall are mostly rural counties and tourist magnets at the far south west corner of England. They share a common enemy in rich city dwellers who buy up second homes all over the nation’s beauty spots and price the locals out of the market. When it comes to scones though, its war.
In Cornwall scones are served jam first with clotted cream on top. The Devon method is clotted cream first with jam on top. You might think who the hell cares, just let me stuff my face with them. And you’d be correct, I do love a good scone but people also love an argument. If they weren’t wasting their time on this they might have to do some work.
Personally, I follow the Cornish method. Not because I have anything against Devon, but jam is thicker than cream so its easier to spread the cream on the jam. If any Devonians are reading, sorry, its nothing personal.
While we’re on the subject of scones, in addition to the bad blood between Cornwall and Devon, they’re also at the centre of one of the most contentious and long running debates in Britain. In the unlikely event you find yourself at a dull dinner party with a load of Brits and want to liven things up just ask how they pronounce the word scone then sit back and watch.
Where I grew up its pronounced scone as in ‘gone’ whereas where my wife grew up in Derbyshire (the Midlands) its scone as in ‘phone’. Both opinions informed by the belief that the other pronunciation is the reserve of posh folk. I’ve never watched Downton Abbey so I can’t verify who is right in that regard. There appears to be no north – south divide on this one, there are pockets of variation all over the place.
And if you really want to toss in a lit match? Ask them about bread. This simple item is variously called a bread bun, a breadcake, a bread roll, a barmcake, a cob, a bap, a muffin, a scuffler, etc, etc.
Any discussion of which is correct will result in the belief that the louder and more forcefully you shout will be sufficient to convince everyone else that your own term is the one true bread. As well as being entirely pointless.
Still, its better than shouting about Brexit and the merits of EU membership.
Brexit is a recent addition to the hate factory. It managed to internalise all the dischord that was previously directed at our European neighbours by those of certain political persuasions and set families, friends and colleagues at odds with each other. Social media was a lawless sewer of righteous indignation, baiting and abuse the week after the vote. And still it rumbles on. I never thought I’d say it but as a left-leaning pro-European, let’s all just get on and love each other type of guy, I’d rather go back to the scones debate to be honest.
Back to sport then. Specifically: football. Generally hatred is reserved for a team’s closest neighbours, usually in the same city or one not far away. Given the size of the country and number of teams its not difficult to find someone to despise. Sometimes, one intense rivalry is just not enough. For example, Liverpool (as in the football team) have their cross city neighbours Everton to cross swords with but also have a particularly ‘vibrant’ relationship with Manchester United. Manchester United meanwhile also have Manchester City to contend with and then there’s Leeds United for whom Manchester United are the object of their disaffection.
The intensity of their non affection and reciprocation waxes and wanes depending on teams’ trajectories. Cross city rivals will always have a special bond. But despite being in the same division, Liverpool have been outperforming Everton for so long that Liverpool fans don’t treat Everton as serious rivals anymore. Similarly, Leeds United fans hatred of Manchester United isn’t returned with quite the same level of animosity these days.
The Liverpool – Manchester rivalry also takes in other aspects. Its not just football, both were industrial powerhouses vying for commercial supremacy and football just allowed residents to give voice to their feelings of superiority. And then music was added into the mix. The Beatles and Merseybeat gave Liverpool global supremacy in the 60s but Manchester came back strongly in the 80s and 90s with The Smiths followed by Madchester, followed by Oasis.
My own team are Newcastle United whose arch rivals are Sunderland. Again, both industrial powerhouses for whom football was an extension of civic pride, the stadiums are only 14 miles apart. Both were hugely successful in the late 19th and early 20th century but just like the shipyards both were famed for, that success is now a distant memory. A shared lack of success does nothing to calm feelings though. In 2013 Sunderland won 3 – 0 at Newcastle. Trouble ensued from aggrieved Toon* fans resulting in a notorious altercation captured on film in which a middle aged man punched a police horse in the head. He was sentenced to 12 months in prison. The horse was fine, you’ll be pleased to know. Sometimes hatred and stupidity tread a fine line.
* Supporters of Newcastle are the ‘Toon Army’. This is because in Geordie (someone from Newcastle) vernacular Toon = Town and Newcastle is The Town.
For possibly the ultimate sporting rivalry, which isn’t really about football at all, it’s off to Glasgow. Celtic and Rangers are the biggest clubs in Scotland. Celtic represent Catholics and Rangers Protestants. Sectarian politics have played such a part that the first Catholic to sign for Rangers wasn’t until 1989. Despite over 130 years of shared history, there are still only a small number of players that have played for both teams. The rivalry is a representation of all the issues around Northern Ireland but transplanted to Scotland, taking in religion, politics, national identity and a whole lot of history. I wouldn’t even know where to start in dealing with Northern Ireland though, its seemingly simple but complicated. Or is it seemingly complicated but simple?
There’s so many rivalries across this land that its only possible to cover off a small amount. For one last example of how far down it goes, when I first used to go out drinking with friends it was in the small seaside town of Amble. A couple of times we went drinking in Alnwick instead, a bigger town 10 miles away. (A picturesque place, Alnwick Castle has appeared in many films including representing Hogwarts). We were told by older friends that under no circumstances should we tell anyone we were from Amble.
As the largest town in the area, a Friday and Saturday night in Alnwick pulled in drinkers from across the district. Alcohol and parochial pride in their town or village apparently made for a combustible combination. We never experienced any trouble ourselves so maybe like a lot of these stereotypes it was more folklore than reality but we didn’t take any chances.
One thing to remember is that all of the stereotypes depicted are just that – and they ignore the rich diversity that exists everywhere. There maybe an element of truth in some of them but I would like to make it clear that I do not believe that the Welsh shag sheep or condone its use as a derogatory term. My role is merely to educate you in just how dysfunctional a family the UK can be.
Right then, anyone have any questions on that or have any requests for future primers on British culture, geography, history, etc?
Or if you like, the comments section is open. Feel free to have an argument about what you call bread buns.
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Great post JJ. I learned a lot.
My question: how does the motherland view its former colonies?
Feel free to keep you answer(s) to the comical or silly. I know it’s a loaded question.
Generally speaking, we (Canada) think of our selves as one of the kids that behaves themselves. Obtaining independence constitutionally and helping when called upon.
A related matter (maybe for another post): different views of the Monarchy throughout the UK. I raise this because it has become a hot topic in Canada lately. The general consensus is that we love The Queen but may re-evaluate our relationship with the Monarchy after she passes away. Although the constitutional quagmire for Canada to jettison the Monarchy is a Ph.D topic on its own.
Finally for yours truly:
Scone rhymes with phone and I too follow the Cornish method–although I did not know that until today!
The Commonwealth is a tricky one. I’d say for the most part it isn’t thought about. The big exception is Australia due to its history as a penal colony for disposing of undesirables from the UK and the rivalry in cricket and to a lesser extent rugby. There’s also a lot of movement of people between the two.
I’ve been to Canada a couple of times and it doesn’t have that association of being connected to the UK til you look at the money and see the Queen. Then we went to Montreal and it becomes a really weird dissociative experience of speaking French and still having the Queen.
Europe and the EU being our direct neighbours kind of usurped the Commonwealth in terms of importance.
Agree with what you say about things changing once the Queen passes. Barbados formally became a republic last year and I’d expect more will follow. The only time the Commonwealth as an entity really impinges on people’s thoughts is for the Commonwealth Games. I’m not sure they’re going to survive much longer either. There doesn’t seem interest in hosting it outside of UK and Australia. I’d be interested to know do many in Canada pay attention to it?
The Commonwealth has had a massive impact on Britain, mainly in terms of immigration post WW2 from the Caribbean and Asia. Its something that has vastly enriched and changed the country but has also stirred up the very worst in some bringing prejudice and racism to the fore. I wish it was different but as our long history shows there’ll always be some that would rather stir things up than learn to live with each other.
Regarding the Commonwealth Games, it may come as no surprise that, generally speaking, Canada’s focus on international sport is on the Winter Olympics (although viewership continues to decline due to both geo-politics and no participation in Hockey by the NHL) and, more importantly, the various international hockey tournaments.
This is to say that, personally and anecdotally, we hear about the Commonwealth Games, but I don’t know of anyone who watches them.
I imagine the time differences generally makes watching them even less appealing. Its been a while since you guys hosted, shirking your responsibilities. How can you resist the lure of watching Crown Green Bowls live?! One of the delightful anachronisms of the games that Bowls still has a place
I can’t let this opportunity slide…
https://youtu.be/-Aj3KZa1ZCM
*ahem*
*ahem AHEM*
Thank you, jilly. My apologies for the oversight. Weak, weak coffee yesterday morning.
actually saw DeGrasse run once. His form is terrible but he’s pure speed. Amazing to watch a bunch of super-fast humans at top speed, and then one moves ahead, going even faster…
Canada? Oh, CANADA?!!!
It’s one of two things:
All things in jest (the Canadians are great with taking jokes a-BOOT their country!!)!
**I have SO MUCH to add to this conversation, so buckle up! Unfortunately I’m in class right now so give me some time!!
Memo to Canada re: thegue’s next visit:
Someone get a toque ready. We don’t wanna be running up the hydro bill.
Be sure to save your toonies so that our pal has a memento.
Remind thegue that we use metric and imperial up here. We’re too nice to pick one.
See you soon, eh!?
great article. and yeah, N. Ireland is a whole different level of crazy, best avoided. (As the Romans did, it seems. History tells us that they conquered that damp rainy main island, then looked across the sea at an even damper, rainier island and thought “sod that for a game of marbles…”)
Not sure about that map though – the north is too far south on one side and too far north on the other. I’d say Leicester, Birmingham and Coventry are Midlands and the North starts with Nottingham. Brian Clough would certainly agree with me!
DAMN UNITED!!!
On a lighter note, I regularly engage in a game called “guess the accent”. When I run into people thru bartending, or social gatherings, and I detect a different accent (American or otherwise), I’ll ask them if they’re from _______
ONE EXCEPTION: I was bartending at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and a guest ordered a drink from me while talking to one of their friends.
Me: “Excuse, I REALLY apologize if this offends you, but are you from Northern Ireland?”
It is SUCH a unique accent, but imagine if I’d said that to a Geordie. Or Scotsman.
I was going to get into the whole issue of accents in the north east but I needed to draw a line and stop writing. A big area of discontent as from Northumberland down to Teesside there’s a tendency for non locals to think of it as one generic Geordie accent. Folks from Sunderland and Middlesbrough do not appreciate being called Geordies. While Geordies don’t appreciate Mackems (Sunderland citizens) and Smoggies (Middlesbrough citizens) being thought of as Geordies.
do other countries have so many different regional accents as the uk? It’s like every street hits the consonants harder than the next street over.
So…. what is the difference between the Geordie/Mackem/Smoggie accent? And where is the line between the areas? One side of a river?
I don’t think there is a line as such. There are slight variations across really short distances. They might not be noticeable to someone that isn’t local but they’re there. There’s differences in dialect with words common in one area but not another as well as differences in the sound.
As an example a Geordie will say ‘howay’ which translates as ‘come on / hurry up’. A Macken will say ‘haway’ and a Smoggie will say ‘oway’ with the h dropped. For an outsider though they might not pick up the difference.
And then there’s Ashington. A small town half an hour north of Newcastle and my birth place where even by North east standards is something else. There’s a whole section of the internet dedicated to Ashington accent jokes.
E.g.;
To the rest of the World the word Ferns denotes a plant whereas to Ashington its a character from Happy Days.
I read an article on the various subtle accents in the UK, and how English linguists can identify the origin of a person with 5 km of their hometown in England based on various pronunciations.
Also, a great opportunity to plug one of my favorite videos:
https://youtu.be/FyyT2jmVPAk
She’s good but she’s made the cardinal sin of referencing Billy Elliott as being Geordie. Its set in County Durham which is closer to being Mackem. Though the accent of the Durham coalfields where the film is set is different again and is known as Pitmatic or Yacker. The whole thing is a minefield really though!
Ok, this has bugged me forever –
What is the association with calling Newcastle folks “Geordies”? I’ve always thought it similar to Louisiana Cajun’s where it makes zero sense unless you know Cajuns of the area descended from French Canadian Acadians (or something like that, I still don’t fully understand it, or their accent for that matter, lol)
What’s the term Geordies based on?
I was waiting for that question! There are a few theories but most credible is this one, in the words of Newcastle University Library;
The name originated during the Scottish Jacobite Rebellion of 1745. The Jacobites declared that Newcastle and the surrounding areas favoured King George II and were “for George”. Hence the name Geordie used as a derivation of George.
For some more north east England based name derivation fun, people from the town of Hartlepool are called ‘Monkey Hangers’. The story is that during the Napoleonic Wars in the early 1800s a French ship was shipwrecked off the town. The only survivor was the ship’s mascot; a monkey. The good people of Hartlepool had never seen a French man before and assuming that this was one put it on trial as a spy and then hanged it.
Whether this is true or not is lost in the mists of history but the town has reclaimed what was once an insult. Their football teams mascot is now H’Angus the Monkey. The man inside H’Angus ran for town mayor on the promise of free bananas for all schoolchildren. He won.
yeah, the NI/Ulster accent is unusual. And i think because it’s so different from the southern Ireland accent, it throws a lot of people. And then there’s the slang. And the speed. And the cursing…
…And a good welcome to @jilly boal !
Great to see you here!
Hi, mt58. I would do this through e-mail, but I’m waiting for my phone to work. Is there a way that “cappie the dog” shows up in the “recent quippery” section, while still keeping my actual name for articles. I want to thank the other people who commented on my article, but I have a phobia about seeing my name five times in a row.
The way that the code works, we can only go with one name. I’ve flipped you back to cappie.
thanks! Great to see so many familiar names!
Today’s lesson: human suckage is universal! Aw, how nice, we’re united in our collective awfulness. 🙂
I did once make the mistake of extending the “British Isles” concept too far, and called Irish people “British” to someone with Irish parents–and they sternly corrected me with a warning that I better not say anything like that in Ireland.
It’s odd how we all are almost proudly indifferent to the nuances of other cultures, while at the same time fully convinced that everyone should care about our particular nuances. I had a flicker of umbrage once when someone confused a Baltimore accent for a Philly one. But after a second thought I realized: “you know, they are pretty similar!”
I think the running thread in a lot of this is wounded pride, or just general insecurities that manifest in random ways. Thus these very strange battles of slang like pop vs soda, of jam and cream vs cream and jam, or breaking eggs on the small side or big side.
#Little-Endian4Life
I will say that America threw an outright bomb into the old British baking terms, and so I get so confused when I try to work out what’s a biscuit, what’s a scone, and what’s a muffin.
Ah yes, biscuits. I’d heard of biscuits and gravy which to a Brit are two things that definitely do not go together. I prefer my biscuits with chocolate on them, adding gravy would be madness. On my first visit to the US we did a road trip. Needing some food we pulled into a truck stop and I came face to face with biscuits and gravy for the first time. I couldn’t get the English version of biscuits as a sweet snack out of my mind and that gravy looked……err….now I don’t want to start an international incident so I’m not sure i can say how it looked to me. I didn’t order it though.
Hey, even we sometimes call it what it is. In Philly we lovingly refer to cream chipped beef served on toast as “shit on a shingle.” 🙂
My father worked for a few years in Canada. The first time he ordered biscuits and gravy in a restaurant, the server quizzed him about it pretty sharply. Was he sure that he wanted the gravy on the biscuits? Yes, he was. Really sure?. Yes. Really, really sure? At this point it was decided that the gravy would come on the side. When he saw the biscuits, he was really glad. After a little bit of confusion and a good bit of laughter, he ordered some fried potatoes for the gravy, and took the biscuits home for dessert that night.
On a flight back from London, a flight attendant asked if I’d like a scone. I forget how she pronounced it, but just as she was going to put it on my plate we hit a little turbulence. The scone slipped out of her tongs, fell on to my plate, and spun around like you’d spin a coin. It came to a rest, and the flight attendant said, “I’m sorry, sir, I didn’t mean to throw that at you.”
The guy next to me, in an American accent and without missing a beat, said, “It’s OK, he was just a scone’s throw away.”
Since then, I’ve always pronounced it to rhyme with “stone.”
My wife will be delighted, another one on her team!
Super fun and informative article, JJ! You just peeled back a curtain on something I was largely clueless about.
I grew up on the border of Tennessee and Kentucky, living on both sides of that border at various times. If you explored that area, you would have no way to differentiate them… same type of people, same accents, same landscape, same food. The rivalry was still fierce, but in a friendly-but-serious way (not in a gonna-kill-yo-ass way). Mainly sports related… Kentucky with the upper hand in basketball, Tennessee with the advantage in American football (all other sports are hobbies for kids). But some other stereotypes seeped in. EVERYBODY in Kentucky complained about Tennessee drivers. Not sure there was anything to it, but you know, every day you get stuck behind a slow driver on the 2-lane highways, and every once in a while that car has a Tennessee plate since you live near the border. Selection bias does its magic and suddenly every Tennessean is a shit driver. And don’t get started with that horrid shade of orange for THEIR team.
Anyway not that Kentucky is anything special. We like to say it’s the only state that joined the Confederacy after the Civil War was over. I grew up there and it’s perfectly situated in my past, no need to move it anywhere else in time. I do have a weird sense of defensiveness about Kentucky though, but I wouldn’t be caught dead living there ever again. If that makes any sense…
Thanks Pauly. Totally get the defensiveness for the place you left behind. I’m similar in that I moved away from where I grew up though it sounds like I retain more affection for my childhood home than you. I get defensive if people think I’m a Yorkshireman, as I live in Leeds now, or that I support Leeds United. I like where I live now but the place you grow up is still difficult to shrug off.
whats your opinion on hot pot? You have to have one!
My opinion would be that Lancashire has done a grand job of claiming ownership of what many other areas of the country would just refer to as a stew. I’d say its somewhat looked down as a traditional poor persons food. Which conversely now means that its reclaimed as something to be celebrated. We ate a lot of stews when I was a kid, yes we were poor. So many that I have no need to eat another, whether its branded as a hotpot or not.
ooh, i love a good stew, me… Bœuf Bourgignon is just a fancy stew with a sexy accent!
When I first moved to Tennessee, I thought there were a lot of British people here. Everyone had a UK sticker or hat or t-shirt. Took me forever to figure out it stood for the University of Kentucky.
One of my friends was an ardent UK fan. His mother-in-law got him a Duke shirt for Christmas. When his wife asked why in the world she would do that, she replied, “Well, it’s the same shade of blue.” Needless to say, Goodwill was gifted with a Duke shirt shortly thereafter.
JJ!
My favorite article on the site…it helps that I’ve been to England 20+ times, lived there for two summers and was engaged to an Englishwoman (West London accent, but lived in Norfolk) until 2008. A few thoughts…
Ruud Hullitt was fired the next day.
4. There’s plenty English that struggle with the Scottish accent. Back in the 80s/90s there was a popular comedy Rab C. Nesbitt, set in Glasgow. The title character was a heavy drinking unemployed waster. Comedy gold right there, I loved it. There were suggestions it should be subtitled due the difficulties some had in understanding it.
7. I had that on a compilation Annie On One. A playlist of massive tunes played by Annie Nightingale on her early hours Radio 1 show. Also featuring Sabres of Paradise: Theme, Daft Punk: Da Funk and Flowered Up: Weekender. Awesome compilation.
9. A schoolfriend went to university in Glasgow. He quickly learnt that the answer when being asked by a local; Are you Celtic or Rangers? Was to respond with Partick Thistle. Cue laughter rather than a Glasgow Kiss.
10. Poor Ruud. Such expectation, such a disaster. It resulted in Bobby Robson taking charge though.
As for more humour based on the Scottish accent, this is one of my favorites:
https://youtu.be/TqAu-DDlINs
One of my favorite sketches ever.
This was awesome, JJ. I have to admit as I read it I heard it in the voice of the guy who does the “History Matters” videos on YouTube…you guys both have a way of injecting just the right amount of humour to make what could be a tedious subject riveting!
Thanks Aaron, glad to hear I kept it the right side of the tedium line! I had enough dull history lessons at school, wouldn’t want to inflict that on others.
My goodness, what a fun read JJ! Happy to know I played a teensy part in planting the seed for this article, I loved reading it. 🙂
Definitely a good high level intro into British resentment towards everyone.
And mt, that pic of Waldorf and Statler as Oxford and Cambridge??? Just sublimely hysterical, that was so good, lol.
Every time I visited my friend and her family (they are in Kent, btw) over the years, they always made up fresh scones for Sunday afternoon tea. (IIRC, they are jam-mers there in the SE). It was a neat custom I thought, and fresh scones are fantastic. Haven’t been over there in 15 years though. We happened to be chatting recently on Skype on a Sunday, and she’s munching on scones, and starting laughing when she realized it, and told me – yep, we still do our fresh scones baking every Sunday! [That would be the ‘rhymes with phone’ version]
I love scones. However its pronounced. Sweet or savoury it doesn’t matter. A cheese scone is great too. I’ve made them myself but I struggled with the right dough consistency. More practice required.
Also loved seeing mt come up with the Waldorf and Statler photo. My favourite muppets.
Back when I was a newspaper copy editor, my neighbor (the metro front page designer) and I had such a banter back and forth about the night’s offerings that the metro editor started calling us “Statler and Waldorf.” We took it as a compliment.
I wanted to postpone commenting until I figured out how to change my name back to “cappie the dog” when I post, so I don’t come across as a raging megalomaniac. Just wanted to say that, “So far north…,” got me laughing.
In some early Ken Loach films, the accents were so impenetrable to people living outside the UK, in particular, “Riff-Raff”, set mostly in London, Channel Four Films made the decision to use subtitles, even though they’re speaking English. When I close my eyes, and I’m concentrating really hard, yeah, I have to admit, it’s hard.
Great stuff, JJ Live at Leeds.
Thanks for the kind words cappie, glad you enjoyed it.
Great article! I learned so much from it!
mt, the site is becoming daily appointment reading. That’s the good news. The bad news is: When will I find daily reading time? Fortunately, the school year is almost over … but August will be rough.
>the site is becoming daily appointment reading
The Holy Grail, right there. Thank you, Chuck!
Good article JJ. Very informative.
JJ. Thanks for the history lesson, The funny thing is that applies to just about every local of our world. My fathers side is from England and Ireland and my mothers from the same side but my grandmother has Spain in the genetics and that really throws the whole thing out of whack.
At our faculty luncheon farewell today, a couple of ladies were talking about being bohunks, which for us of a certain age meant Youglosivia, which doesn’t exist anymore but I remember growing up.
The fact of the matter is that however we try to be one world, our ancestry speaks to us and we tend to side with the past.
We should realize we our on this planet together and to move forward we have to forget the sins and memories of the past and forge ahead.
If I’m not mistaken, “Bullworth” the movie said we should all have sex until we all are grey and then move forward. \
But there is something to be said about having a memory of a past life and incorporating into our present.
So much for my lesson of the day.
I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?
I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?
Haha, it’s the electronic version of invisible ink! 😄
Had problems with the other posts, so here goes again … I LOVE THIS ARTICLE, JJ! (Oh, sorry about yelling on here, but I really enjoyed it.) In case you were wondering about every state’s least favorite state that sparked your story, I can only speculate as a lifelong resident of North Carolina that the reason South Carolina grates on our nerves is that the roads to their beaches or to destinations to which we as North Carolinians have to travel through the state to reach, such as Atlanta or Savannah or all of Florida, are usually crowded, boring or both to drive. It’s either that or we don’t like their barbecue sauce as much or favor pine trees over palmetto trees. Who knows?
I think I need a lie-down with a cool towel on my head after all that – seems exhausting (signed, an American West Coast Liberal Elitest).